Saturday, October 11, 2008

One Last McChance....

I'm generally not a pessimist, but I must say that the breathtaking array of cover up about Barack Obama's philosophical viewpoint, and the push to get him elected, is very disturbing. Obama has allied and surrounded himself with radical socialists for most of his life. Bill Ayres is an unrepentant domestic terrorist; ACORN is by and large the voter fraud machine of the Democrat party; and of course we know all about "Reverend" Wright and the ridiculous Father Pfleger.
Many of Obama's associates and mentors learned at the feet so to speak, of Saul Alinsky, whose well published tactics are the DNA of the "community organizing" about which Obama is at once proud but also elusive. What radicals socialists couldn't achieve in the 60's through violence they are attempting through subversive legal maneuvers and soaring, inspiring (but void of morality) rhetoric. Their objective is remaking the world in the socialist-collectivist image where only a few elite have any power or freedom (hmm, I wonder who might be in that group??) Combine this with the corruption that has accompanied Obama via Resko and his soon-to-be cabinet advisors who have made millions in the Freddie Mac/Fannie Mae debacle, I must ask myself why so few people have any idea what is behind this guy.

For Catholics, just about any Democrat and of course many Republicans would be problematic in the election, given the pro-abortion or in some cases the weak-lemonade "prolife" stance they support. But Obama is different, and in fact I believe much more dangerous than say Hillary Clinton. At least the Clintons are predictable: they will say or do anything for the power. But Obama actually believes in his philosophy, which carried to its conclusion would not only further devalue human life via expansion of abortion "rights" but also limit basic American freedoms we rely on to fight the good fight: free speech (expect another crack at the Fairness Doctrine under Obama) and economic opportunity (forced redistribution of wealth being the cornerstone of socialist monetary policy).

McCain is not the anti-Obama, and presents problems of his own. But as a candidate for Catholics he is a damn sight better, and at least sufferable until the Republicans can get their act together. It's my own "audacity of hope."


Holy Water said...

I am not in favor of using this blog as a political forum.
All my Irish Catholic Relatives would not agree with your proclaiming, a certain Presidential candidate as a “candidate for Catholics”, and either do I.

Joshua 24:15 said...

I don't completely agree with you, but I would concede that this blog was created to discuss issues related to Catholicism and not pure politics. We do have an obligation to participate in government, and there are aspects of each major candidate's likely performance in office that have direct consequences on our freedom to practice our religion and to discuss it openly in public. I believe Obama's would be unfavorable for Catholics in several ways. You can disagree and we can have a dialogue about this, legitimately on this blog.

As for "candidate for Catholics," I believe you're reading that in the wrong way-- I wasn't intending to say that McCain was the presumed "Catholics' candidate." Both Obama and McCain are candidates for whom Catholics need to decide to vote, or not. So, as a "candidate for Catholics" Obama is problematic due to his pro-abortion stance.

Germanicus said...

You don’t know your Irish politics very well. My Irish Catholic relatives have no problem telling anyone who the Catholic choice is. They haven’t had a problem with that for 75 years. “Vote early and vote often”

“Political machines controlled major American cities into the 20th century. From New York to San Francisco, the Irish dominated big city politics. New York's Tammany political machine was under Irish control for more than fifty years.
Irish influence resulted in increased power for the Democratic Party as well as the Catholic Church. William R. Grace became New York City’s first Irish-Catholic mayor in 1880. Four years later, Hugh O’Brien won the same position in Boston.
Irish-American political clout led to increased opportunities for the Irish-American. Looking out for their own, the political machines made it possible for the Irish to get jobs, to deal with naturalization issues, even to get food or heating fuel in emergencies. The political machines also rewarded their own through political appointments. In 1855, "...nearly 40% of New York City's policemen were immigrants, and about three-fourths of these immigrants were Irish."[Wittke, The Irish in America]”

Holy Water said...

I was taking issue with Joshua’s statement
“McCain is not the anti-Obama, and presents problems of his own. But as a candidate for Catholics he is a damn sight better,”
I am from Chicago. All my Irish Relatives are Democrats for the very reasons you gave.
My statement, should read
“All my Irish Catholic Relatives would not agree with your proclaiming, a certain Presidential REPUBLICAN candidate as a “candidate for Catholics”, and either do I.”

Also as I said, I’m not in favor of using this blog as a political forum.

Anonymous said...

Do your Catholic relatives care that Obama is a pro-abortion candidate?? That is a Catholic issue that goes beyond parties, and national borders too.

Laura The Crazy Mama said...

I say this blog should be a forum for all things current and Catholic. What could be more trench-worthy than politics as it pertains to Catholic morals and decisions we must make in the world? We can all inform each other on what our ideas are about faith and politics. What's wrong with that? Joshua wrote that he thinks, "as a candidate for Catholics he is a damn sight better" which is clearly NOT the same thing as "You aren't really a good Catholic unless you vote for McCain" or "All Catholics MUST vote for McCain!"
Love ya, holy water, but I gotta say I think you've jumped the gun just a tad.

Germanicus said...

The Churches teaching is clear and has never changed. Abortion is wrong because it is murder. As a Catholic you can not support abortion. Voting for an overtly pro-abortion candidate is support for abortion. Obama is overtly pro-abortion. Catholics can not vote for him.

James Moore

Holy Water said...

I am pro life. My wife is pro life. Our children are pro life. We have 10 Grandkids.
I try to be a good Catholic. I take serious my Catholic commitment, to my Family, to myself and God, to my profession and as a social person.
Obama has publicly stated He is pro life. See

My wife and I worked so our children would live in a better world than we grew up with. My hope and prayers are that our Grandchildren will live in an even better world.
This is the determining factor in who I will vote for on Election Day whether it be Republican, Democrat or Independent.

Germanicus said...

Holy Water,
Obama is not pro-life. He has never claimed to be. His voting record is 100% pro-death. He has formally pledged to make upholding Roe vs Wade a priority of his presidency.
You need to re-read the Catholics for Obama website. They do not argue that Obama is pro-life. They argue that even though he is pro-death Catholics can still vote for him in good conscience. They make this argument based on an abortion reduction strategy proposed by a Pepperdine Law professor named Kmeic. A strategy which they claim can be supported with statements made by Bishop Chaput [Denver] statements which were incomplete and taken out of context. Bishop Caput does not endorse the views of Catholics for Obama or the strategy proposed by prof Kmeic and has asked them to remove his name from their site. There is not one Bishop supporting this site or the strategy proposed by Kmeic.

You need to reconsider your position. You are pro-life but Obama is not pro-life. You are a practicing Catholic but the arguments of “Catholics for Obama” are not supported by your Bishops. You want this world to be a better place for your grandchildren but common sense tells you that you can’t build a better world on a foundation of murder. In their statement on the responsibilities of Catholics in public life the Bishops tell us that “It is the particular vocation of the laity to transform the world.”. The work you and your wife have done to prepare a better world for you children is your particular vocation. Abortion will not make this world a better place for you or your grandchildren. It is based on wrong headed logic driven by fear. Abortion is a failed social experiment that does nothing to address the real problems of poverty, education and jobs. Solving these problems will transform the world. Abortion will not. What abortion does do very well is de-value the lives of the poor and marginalized both the women and the pre-born babies. The very people we are supposed to care for.
James Moore

Holy Water said...

Germanicus. Thanks for the last comment.
I relooked at that website with an open mind as best as possible and I have to admit, it is pretty shaky.

You make a very good argument. I can tell you are very passionate about this subject, and that is a good thing.

I look at more than just abortion. I’m against the war and in my opinion; the Republicans are leading our country down a destructive path.

I will repeat myself in saying I want my Grandchildren to have a better world.
This is why I am voting the way I am. We do not know the outcome of the election and either way, time will tell. And either way, I hope the world will become a better place.
Good luck to You.